Becoming Trauma-Informed

S4EP17: Cultivating Pleasure: A Path to Liberation and Empowerment with Toran McGill

• Season 4 • Episode 17

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Have you ever wondered about the power of pleasure? What if pleasure had the potential to be your superpower, your healing tool, your path to liberation? 

 

Toran McGill, also known as the Pleasure Priestess, joins Dr. Lee in a stimulating conversation about embracing pleasure in all aspects of life, from dealing with grief to navigating work and relationships.

 

They deep dive into the importance of expressing emotions and challenging societal norms. Toran shares her personal journey and how she infuses her role as the Pleasure Priestess with fun, humor, and self-permission. They also explore Toran's unique Pleasure Priestess methodology that focuses on mind, body, and soul, giving us insight on how manipulation can hinder relationships and how expressing desires without fear can be liberating.

 

This episode invites you to reimagine the narrative of pleasure. What if it wasn’t just a reward but a resource? What if the role of consent and self-permission allowed us to cultivate pleasure in our everyday lives enabling us to embrace pleasure in its full spectrum? 

 

Guest Bio:

Toran McGill supports people in shifting from a pain and punishment paradigm into their pleasure and potency lifestyle. Reconnecting people to their soulmates - their bodies. 

●     The Pleasure Priestess

●     Pleasure Embodiment Coach

●     Trauma Informed and Pleasure Focused Certified Sex, Love & Relationships Coach 

●     Certified Men’s Sexuality Coach and Certified Tantric Sex Coach

●     Body Doula 

●     Luminary of Pleasure 

●     Daimyo

●     Poet and Author 

 

 

Connect with Toran:

https://thepleasurepriestess.as.me/TandA

https://www.toranmcgill.com/

https://taplink.cc/toranmcgill

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By email:

  • hello@institutefortrauma.com




Speaker 2:

Hi and welcome to the Becoming Trauma-Informed podcast where we help you understand how your past painful experiences are affecting your current reality and how you can shift those so you can create your desired future. I'm Dr Lee, and both myself and our team at the Institute for Trauma and Psychological Safety are excited to support you on your journey. We talk about all the things on this podcast. No topic gets left uncovered. So extending a content warning to you before we get started if you notice yourself getting activated while listening, invitation to take care of yourself and to pause, skip ahead a bit or just check out another episode. Let's dive in. Hi everybody, welcome to this week's episode. I'm very excited. I feel very excited. I have the lovely Torne McGill with me here today and Torne and I met actually so funny because right before this I was like oh, I'll talk about where we met and then we'll go in and I'm like wait, did we meet in Julia's space? Which Julia's space did we meet?

Speaker 1:

in. I knew of you in Julia Wells' space and I met you in Queen Julia's space. Julia Robinson.

Speaker 2:

Okay, julia Robinson. Okay, who was JBT at the time? Yes, yeah, I'm no longer really in Julia Wells' space and Julia Robinson is one of my absolute favorite humans in the world. Yeah, so we were in the black and bougie mastermind together. Yes, that's right. Okay, now I'm remembering, yeah, which was I think it was a stretch for both of us, because for me it was like I'm going to be in this space with a bunch of these gorgeous black women and I've never really been in this space with a bunch of other black women and identified in that way.

Speaker 2:

I've talked about it on here before. That's been a big source of shame and trauma for me around being in between and going. Am I allowed to be in these spaces? Am I not allowed to be in these spaces? And you've been a huge. What the heck are you talking about? Of course you get to be in this space for me, so you've been a source of comfort and friendship in that way. I'm glad, thank you, yeah, so I don't ask people what they do, because I think that that's just such a to use a pleasure term vanilla way of being like right, so like what's this thing that you do to? Like be able to pay your rent and eat food. Like that's not a like. What do you love? Like what are you? What do you get really passionate about? Like what do you bring into the world? Like who?

Speaker 1:

are you. I love the reframe of that. So what I bring into the world is fun, humor and permission, and it comes in the form of me being the pleasure priestess, and that is like the big umbrella I brag, I multifaceted it, and so I am very passionate about body freedom. I'm very passionate about having the best sex of your life and whatever that best looks like, feels like for you. I'm very passionate about feelings and emotions and allowing ourselves to express them, so we can no longer suppress anything else, right, whether it be our sexuality or our desires. I'm very passionate about people being safely home in their bodies. A lot of people are like you know, come on to your body. I'm like, yeah, but if your body's not a safe space, that's not where you want to go. So I'm very passionate about being safe back in your body and moving it for the sake of it feeling good and not for the sake of some other kind of measurement right but it's really because this is what feels good when I do this.

Speaker 1:

This is how I feel good when I do this, not because I need to be a size zero or, you know, have the most muscles in the world, although the muscles are nice.

Speaker 2:

They are. You know, I, oh I love what you said there. This I want to talk about the suppression versus the expression part, because that's huge and I think that's something that would be super helpful for our listeners, and also the part of that you just said of, like, how can you feel at home in your body if your body's not a safe space, and I think that that's a really important piece of this. We actually just shifted the name of our Facebook group and we took out the creating safe or, more shame, free spaces, and the reason was is because a lot of people I think that drove them to join our group, because they wanted to to create spaces externally that were safer and in reality, what we've found over these last two, two and a half years of the Institute being in existence is like that's all fine and well, and you can't create externally what you don't have internally. It will crumble.

Speaker 1:

Right. Yeah, I think that shows up in many places that we forget about, right, like we totally think if I just get to this, when I just get to this and that is one of the things that I'm also most passionate about is that your pleasure is not a reward, it's a resource. So when you are using your pleasure as a resource, the journey of getting to there feels a whole lot better versus being on the path of worrying to get there.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

Like how do I make this happen? How do I make this happen? And when we move from our pain points, the things we build are not sustainable. But when we move from our pleasure as a resource, we have sustainability.

Speaker 2:

Okay, I'm over here, I'm moaning. That's my little sacred old generator, human design going like. That's how you know I'm really feeling something If I'm making all the noises. Can you just kind of like I don't want to say like give the definition for pleasure, but how we were talking about this a little bit before we started. The way I understand pleasure is ascribing positive emotion to sensations.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, the short version for me is it doesn't necessarily have to be a positive emotion, it's the allowance to feel good, because sometimes things feel good and we're like, and it does feel good when you get rid of the quote, unquote, negative emotions. Right, when you move them, you start to find yourself going oh, that kind of feels good. It feels good when you express them safely. So for me, the short definition is allowing yourself to feel good.

Speaker 2:

I love that you say that, because sometimes when you get really into a topic, the way you use words isn't the way that people you know what I mean Like you use words in a way in your community that anyone outside of that community isn't going to get or is going to understand it a different way, and not that they're like they're not going to get it because you haven't talked about it, right? Yes, so when I think of a positive emotion, I just mean I don't mean good or bad, I mean like one of those emotions that's like, yes, you're allowing yourself to, like it's allowed to be there, right? So anger for me can be a really positive emotion, sadness for me can be a really positive emotion. When I think of negative emotion, it's an emotion that I'm not allowing, that I'm judging as wrong. So, case in point, this is the story. I was like I want to weave this story in here somehow and I don't know why I want to tell this story because it's very, it's very personal. I know Toran does this to me.

Speaker 2:

So my husband's grandfather passed away a few days ago and you know things have just been like really heavy and we've really been. This is the first time we've been, I think, in grief and both of us like actually just I don't want to say it's fully in pleasure around our emotions, but not in pain around our emotions, like things hurt, we're feeling sad, we're feeling grief, we're feeling confusion, we're feeling all these things and yet we are judging it as good, right, we are judging it as positive because we know that this is how we, this is a healthier and like a more intimate and connecting way to process. And so we're headed out of town today to go to the visitation and to the funeral, and my dad's coming to help take care of all of our menagerie of animals. So I'm like running around the house, like trying to get things set up and doing the things, and I was like you know what? We actually have some time to like enjoy each other.

Speaker 2:

And so I noticed that I was having a really hard time having an orgasm, like having that release, and I said out loud, I was like I'm like I can't let myself, like I don't know what this is, and before I would have never said that I'll out Right, like I would have just been, like I wouldn't have faked it, but I would have been like forget it, like I gotta get on a podcast. Like we got stuff to do, like just forget it, right. And Tilsi was like what's going on? And all of a sudden there were all these tears and there was all these feelings and I said if, after I have an orgasm, I have to go back to all this hard stuff and I'm so tired, I don't want the pleasure to stop because I'm deciding that the rest of this has to feel painful.

Speaker 2:

And right in that moment it was like wait, but does it. Why are you pushing yourself to do things that don't feel pleasurable? Like why can't we approach this experience in like a pleasurable way? And so then I started thinking like okay, well, I have this podcast with Torrin. Like I don't need to do my makeup, I don't even need to put a bra on. Like nobody's going to see anything. I can be in my pajama pants. You can't see my eyebrows right now. It's fine, because that's how I feel good and that's how I let myself feel good, feeling whatever I'm feeling, and still do the things that I've committed to do no-transcript.

Speaker 1:

Beautiful. Thank you for sharing that with me and I think that's one of the big points, right, like we, particularly our society, who is so wonderfully goal oriented, and orgasms are sometimes one of those things that we are fighting so hard to prove that we've had, because then we can prove we've had the thing right. We've done A, b and C. I've had an orgasm.

Speaker 2:

Our venture was a success. Right, We've reached the end goal.

Speaker 1:

Correct and we can both stop and things can be done. And orgasms are one of the biggest things that need your permission and need you to feel safe in order to exhibit. So the fact to me that you are able to have that conversation and express that out loud, particularly as women, right and I think the conversation a lot is around men performing in sex and forgetting that women also do the same thing. So we love to perform the thing, to be like, yeah, right, so, and for you to be safe enough to say to TLC this is where I am.

Speaker 1:

This is for him to say back to you what's going on and then for you to cry all the tears. Right, we forget that an orgasm is a release, just like tears are released, all the things. So you just experienced a great teargasm and then was able to wrap it back up of like, oh, I'm making all these other things pain points, and how can I move to them to my pleasure paces. So, brad, so have done.

Speaker 2:

Thank you. Yeah, I would say I cry a lot now after that type, any type of release really, but like that type of release, and I used to make myself so wrong for it, Cause it's like, oh my gosh, like you know, we've been together 20 years and I don't I think that this is probably the last couple of years thing of how do I come back to my own body after having it violated and a lot of different ways. How do I find my voice again After being told it has to sound a very specific way, Like, and you know, afterwards there were, there was this ton of tears and I realized I was like man we talked yesterday, it's where you're in our business collective and Lucky me, yes, we're blessed to have you too. And we were talking about, like, how we all have this vulnerable kiddo who has needs that a lot of times they don't get met in childhood until we develop this harsh kiddo.

Speaker 2:

And for women, a lot of times that harsh kiddo turns internal and is like you're bad, you're wrong, your needs are awful. Like you, your feelings aren't good and we create because of how other people teach us, we create internally this very harsh, unkind, violent, restrictive self and that voice, just like we hear it all the time. And so that was what was happening. The second we were done, I was just like, oh my gosh, I took too much time and I have this and I have this and I have this. And I was like, and TLC was on our call yesterday because he's in the collective and he said which kiddo was that? I was like, oh, it's my harsh kiddo. And he's like, well, what is your vulnerable kiddo need? And I was like she just needs to be able to say the things and make the choices she wants to make and not be told she's wrong or not have to like kind of sneak around and then be called a liar.

Speaker 1:

Right yeah.

Speaker 2:

And then all this other stuff came tumbling out, and it was hard because it was stuff that I hadn't said, it was stuff that, like before, I would have said in a very manipulative way, and this time I was like no, I'm not manipulating anyone, I'm just speaking my truth and y'all, anyone who hears this, can do what they will with it. Yes, I'm expressing, not suppressing.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and there's pleasure and potency in that right, when you start to use your voice, when you start to move from your vulnerability place. Having sex is a vulnerable situation and being present in a body is a vulnerable situation right. So when you're able to be present and then present with your vulnerability, it is very potent, it is very tender, it is very honest, it is very raw and sometimes we haven't created or we have not yet cultivated the people around us who can hold that space. So the fact that you're able to create that, cultivate it and then say it out loud and have you still be held and loved and accepted is huge and wonderful and it's part of the orgasm scale of orgasms. That is like there's no hierarchy. I need to say this first there's no hierarchy for orgasms. They are all great and wonderful and some of them are a little more expansive than others. So some of them include things like emotions, tears, being able to say, hey, this is what I need, and then being able to receive yeah, yeah, huge, wonderful.

Speaker 2:

I appreciate your reflections on that, because I was like if anybody is gonna be able to just elevate this story and give context around it, it's torn so thank you for that.

Speaker 2:

So I kind of want to take this in another direction, because I know that this is something you've been really working through, feeling your way through, which is being in pleasure in your work and also being in pleasure as you work on your work. Right In your work is right here, you and I are vibing and enjoying. This is a very easy place to be in pleasure, to feel the feelings and allow it to feel good For me. Anyway, I don't want to speak for you and however there's other places that being in my business can feel, I have to do some allowance work. I'm like how do I relax and surrender to what is happening here and let it feel good?

Speaker 2:

And also working on my work meaning like strategically thinking that we call them the 5Ws like who do I want to work with? How do I want to work, where do I want to work, when do I want to work, what do I want the work to be? And then, why do I want to work? We've had a lot of conversations in our collective of like how do you allow that to feel good?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a practice, and I think that's the most important thing to remember is that pleasure is a practice, particularly since we live in a society that loves to teach you the golden carrot right Like we'll just angle it, you keep working till you die and then we'll give you a reward. And so we I just Then we'll throw you this great big funeral and spend all this money. And so, because that is our viewpoint for the majority of our world, we forget that pleasure is actually an original source I always refer to. For those of us who believe in the creator story or God or whomever you believe or don't believe, when it is written, it is good. It is not a comparison to it being bad. It is good and I allowed this to be good. So, because we've moved so far away from our original source of pleasure, we have to practice it, and that includes our work, and for me, it comes up in a lot of places of like.

Speaker 1:

I work with men, I work with women and I work with relationships, and my work with men has transformed a thousand times, particularly since being in your collective, because there was a lot of older patterns that were showing up as wounds or trauma responses that I need to work with and through first, and part of giving myself permission is like oh, let's name this thing, oh, let's feel this thing, let's feel it as far down as it wants to be felt and as wide as it wants to be felt. Oh now, how do I want that to show up in the work that I'm with or in the relationships that I'm with? Sometimes it comes with putting a specific practice, like task oriented, like putting a specific pleasure practice. I'm gonna work five minutes on creating content and then I'm gonna put a pleasure practice after this, so that we're making this pleasure sandwich and reminding my brain that this is allowed to feel good and I can feel good before and I can feel good after even in the middle of doing the work.

Speaker 2:

Ooh, you're speaking to something that I think some people might be like. Well, of course, like we wanna feel good, right, and it is so fascinating to me just having been in this space coaching a lot of humans around both business and life you know everything for the better part of a decade now.

Speaker 1:

So well bragged.

Speaker 2:

Right, how many of us don't realize we have a story, and when I say a story, I'm not dismissing this belief, but I think it's important to understand when beliefs come from us, like the center of who we are, versus beliefs are infused or instilled into us, and so I like to call them stories when it's something that someone has instilled into me versus something that's coming from me, or I love that distinction. So a lot of us have a story that it's supposed to be hard, yes, and that the only way it actually. Some of us get a little kinky with this, which I think a lot of people are like what? Me, no, and I'm like yeah, but like also yeah, because when it's not hard, when there's not a little bit of pain, when there's not struggle, well, that can't feel good.

Speaker 1:

Right. We create it, we create the pain, we create the struggle, Because if I haven't worked to the bone to earn my reward, then I haven't really earned it. If someone just gave it to me or I laughed my way through it or it just fell in my lap, then people are gonna think that I'm not smart enough or I'm not worthy enough, or I'm gonna think I'm not smart enough and I'm not worthy enough, or that I don't deserve it, Because we have created a story around no pain, no gain If you don't put in the hard work. You know like every graduation speech is about work hard and I'm like whoo, what if today's graduation speech was about feel good the job that's gonna feel good to you, Pick the school that's gonna feel good to you. What if we could move and shift from pain and punishment to pleasure and potency?

Speaker 2:

You know, I always think of that, the origin story, the Christian origin story of you know, and thinking about Adam and Eve. And so many of us take from that like life's gonna be pain from this point forward, and I'm like, you know, I don't know if we take the right message from that. What if the message is is that when you decide that you need to separate yourself from God, that's when things get painful? Yes, like what if the message is, if you decide that you are created in my image and like you are infinite intelligence, yeah, like you're gonna have pain because you're in a human body and that's how shit goes. And also we can still be connected. Like we can, still, we can survive.

Speaker 2:

You know, and I really don't mean to get like religious well, no, you know what? There's a part of me that's like I'm not allowed to talk about religion on this non-religious podcast and it's like, yeah, but like also, this is what I believe, so this does come from the center. So like, whether you believe that or not, there's a ton of humans on this planet that, even if they're like, yeah, no, I don't believe in Christianity, or like I my faith's somewhere else, or I don't have faith in any of that. You're still getting this message because a lot of people in the planet believe this. So like, even if you personally don't believe this, this is infused into so much of how we have set up our society.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes. So much of the world, so much of what we pretend to be at war about is who we're at God with. So, in who is God and all of those things? And if we're just talking, just talking about the infinite, intimate intelligence, if we're talking about your soulmate, we're talking about your body. Your body is what I believe, your soul's mate. Your soul and your body have been agreed to be together till death. Do you part in good times and bad times and sickness and in health? And if you can be the best soulmate to your body, you're gonna have to allow yourself to feel good, to be in your body.

Speaker 2:

You just gonna have to let yourself feel too. Yeah, that part Right, like there are so many feelings. You and Katie Max, who was on here a couple of episodes, y'all are besties, that's fair.

Speaker 2:

And we were talking about this of like you wanna feel really good, again, like that's a judgment. So if you wanna be able to feel the things that you're like wow, these emotions feel really great. You also like. That means you have to be an allowance of all feelings, because feelings happen to us, and so if you have a feeling that you're like, ooh, that feeling that doesn't feel good, well, that's also a judgment.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, mm-hmm yes, and I think that is part of the misunderstanding of pleasure. People see it as a bandaid or a bypass, and I'm here to tell you it is the balm and it is the healing agent. Right, it is when you know I have a space where I can safely express my anger and do no harm to my soulmate or anybody else's. This anger is going to fuel change. This anger is gonna fuel transformation. This anger is gonna fuel my pleasure. This anger is going to change the way the world now votes or the way the world now sees me, or you know what's accessible or what's not accessible.

Speaker 1:

So anger is very important, as are so are all of your other feelings and emotions, and if you can allow yourself the permission to feel them and be like, oh, this feels good to feel this anger, to feel this grief, you're, you know, all the way, all the way all the way back on your pleasure journey, because you're no longer suppressing, you're now expressing and that will then show up later of like, you know what? This bra does not feel good. You know what else? I don't. You know I don't want any other restrictive clothing. I want to be free in things. I want to go commando, right. Whatever, whatever else is gonna be in your desire is going to start to show up the minute you allow yourself and give yourself the permission to say the things.

Speaker 2:

I'm just also thinking about, from like a trauma and a shame perspective and a psychological safety perspective, this idea of your body being your soulmate and you prioritizing your relationship with your soul, with your divinity and with your humanity over everything else. Like I, just as a woman in particular, I believe that right, like I fully believe that that is important and in fact, the past year has been me really healing that relationship with my body and myself and noticing how much kinder and gentler and more compassionate and loving and excited and playful I can be with other people, because oh that's so fascinating.

Speaker 1:

Again, internally I'm not at war anymore makes it a lot easier to not be at war externally, yes, what got me excited is you saying the not be at war anymore Like that, I think, is many, many keys, and that's one of the things you and Katie talked about. If you could not be at war with yourself, imagine the not being at war with other people.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

If you could look in your self in the eye in the mirror and be like, hey, I like you. Oh, my God, I actually love you. You're so cute, look at that shoulder right. Like if you get to start admiring your own body. And I have a practice that I call a living love story, and part of it is you pick a love song that you know you love and that you someday hope somebody sings to you and you are the somebody who sings it to you, and then you are the somebody who sings it to your body. Like you literally put your hands on your body and you sing it to your body. One of my favorite songs to practice to it with lately is Stevie Wonder's I love every little thing about you. Right, I love every little thing about you. I love the way your stomach jiggles. I love the way my thighs jiggle and don't hold form Right, and to be able to sing that into my body oh, how's my body to be like? Oh, okay. So however I show up today, I'm still gonna be loved. Yes, however you show up today, you're gonna still be loved. All of you is welcome here, and sometimes you have to start small, and sometimes you have to start slow and I think, particularly in our world of you know work hard, work until death, that we need it right now, and when you can allow yourself to slow down, like particularly if you spend a lot of time, like I have, outside of in love with your body, trying to meet whatever kind of performance restrictions or costumes or outfits or weights that needed to be met for whatever other reason. So when you spend a lot of time outside of in love with your body, you have to go slow, like, can I start with my toenails? What happens if I get them painted red? Ooh, that's kind of sexy. Okay, red's the color until red's no longer the color right, and taking your time and then allowing yourself to take your time with other people, like, okay, can I maybe hug him with the lights on? Or hug them with the lights on? Ooh, that was kind of vulnerable Mm, and I felt kind of good about it. Can we spend 30 seconds looking each other in the eye, just 30 seconds? And it's amazing to me how hard that is for so many people because they're being seen and being seen as what we do all the stuff before to not do right. We work out till that to not be seen. We work out or whatever we do to not be seen. So, to allow yourself of like, okay, you can look me in the eye for 30 seconds and I can look at you in the eye for 30 seconds. But what if you started that practice with closing your own eyes and seeing your own body and saying I love you, I like you and all of you was allowed, and then you opened your eyes and you saw that across from you. That changes everything.

Speaker 1:

So, as for me, I have what I call the pleasure priestess methodology, and it's a 3-3-5 method, and the first three is the three core areas of pleasure your mind, your body and your soul, which are also the three core areas of life, right. And then it comes into the three principles of pleasure consent, sensations and anatomy. And then we have the five elements of pleasure, what I call the works breath work, energy work, movement work, sounding work and thought work. What are your thoughts around your pleasure? What is your body? How is your body expressing that? Did you give yourself permission?

Speaker 1:

And I think that's one of the things we forget all the time, and that's why I said from the beginning part of my definition is allowing yourself to feel good. A lot of times, we move automatically into the space without giving myself permission. Is it okay for me to be touched here? How does this feel? Do I want this? So I want this to continue. Actually, I don't like that, right? So and we forget to give ourselves permission. Hey, body, do you wanna wear a bra today? No, okay, you don't have to wear a bra today. So I think we just move with assumption and then we're not moving in pleasure. We have stopped to ask. So when we can stop being at war with ourselves, that's gonna start initiating the peace within. When we're able to say, hey, you don't have to wear a bra today. Hey, you don't have to do the thing that they're expecting you to do. What is it that you want to do?

Speaker 2:

These things are so small, right, and there's a study done of how many people can actually look at themselves in the mirror, like look themselves in the eyes in the mirror for more than 10 seconds, and it's like a super low number. Yes, you know, you want an example of how. You know you might be at war with yourself. You can't look at yourself in the eye. Yeah, and sometimes it's because of the things that we've done that we're not proud of. Sometimes it's because of the things that have been done to us that we feel shame around. Sometimes it's because of the conditioning that we've been given of like this part is bad, this part is wrong.

Speaker 2:

Feeling good in a bigger body. You know you and I are both in bigger bodies and are you actually allowed to be like, damn, I look good in this bigger body. Like are you allowed to have that feeling of, oh my gosh, I love these parts of me that I'm gonna just speak to, like American cultures, like you know, you're not supposed to love the jiggly thighs. You're not supposed to love the belly that. You know, the belly that extends past the boobs. You're not supposed to love the boobs that hang lower than like a very specific level, right? Yes, you're not supposed to want to do those things. And the thing that also comes up for me this is I don't know why this is popping in my head right now. It actually did a couple of minutes ago and then it came back. It's like, for me, singing is you're talking about sound work, right? Singing for me is such a huge thing, and I have been told by many people I have a really great voice, right, and I don't and I don't, I'm not at all surprised.

Speaker 2:

And I don't allow myself to sing a lot in public because there's just been a few experiences of like of that and also it's an incredibly vulnerable thing for me to do, and I'm calling myself in here on the podcast itself. You know part of it is you're already gifted in a lot of other ways. Like you're not allowed to have this too right, you can't be a good speaker and a really like smart business person and a good singer and also you can't love your body too. Like you can't be really pretty and attractive too, because, like you're gonna make people feel bad. They're gonna be like, oh, these just perfect.

Speaker 2:

And like, oh, this is just so funny to me because, even saying this out loud, if I met somebody that I absolutely loved and then they started singing really well, I'd be like, oh my gosh, I love them even more, right. So really that's still me kind of being out more with myself, right Of. Like you aren't allowing yourself to love all the pieces and parts and accept all the pieces and parts, because there's this story of it'll be too much, it'll be whatever. But the thing that kept popping in my head was just thinking of my ancestry. Like can be traced back to both slave owners and slaves in the US, and thinking about how Black slaves were used to sing. They used to sing through their work. Yes, even as they're like being whipped and forced to be in pain and do things that they don't wanna do, they're still singing, they're still in pleasure, like what a badass thing to do right.

Speaker 1:

Some of the songs were about pain and some of the songs were about freedom and some of the songs were about hurt, but they were still being sung, they were still being honored, they were still being allowed in that voice of like sounding work, of like. This does not feel good, but this feels good.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I think it's why we sing TLC came with me to my great aunt's funeral. It was his first Black funeral and he's like this is? He's like y'all are you happy? Like I got what is going on. And I'm like, yes, we're happy. Like we're sad, we're grieving, but we're grieving from a place of love. We're feeling our feelings Like our sadness is also mixed with joy, that this person has moved on and that they're not in pain anymore and that they're. You know, if you're religious, you believe that they have gone to heaven and these things. And I was like so yeah, it's both, and we don't make they're allowed to be in the song and in the room together and we don't make it wrong.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and some people will cry and wail and, you know, do all the things and it's all still welcome. I was just at a service recently and the singer evoked so much from so many of us that after she sang acapella, mind you we all stood up and gave her a standing ovation and everybody who was not Black was like what are we doing here? And I'm like we're clapping, we're standing, we're clapping Everybody. Get up off your feet. So it's definitely sound is important and you know this. You know when you hear a song or when you hear someone's voice, that just resonates in your body and if you're able to use your own voice, it's actually so healing to yourself.

Speaker 1:

So another great slow practice record your voice saying hey, I like you or hey, you're welcome here, and listen to yourself in the morning.

Speaker 1:

Listen to yourself, say you are allowed to feel good, you are allowed to feel good, you are allowed to feel good, and notice how your own body starts to settle in to your own voice, how. I mean we are talking to ourselves all day, every day, like you said, we are running that war tape. We are running the plays of destruction all the time upon ourselves. So what if that tape started to change and to say you know you're allowed to be in this space, you are welcome here. What if that tape started to say you know your pleasure is your priority. Does this feel good to you? Right, and that is healing within itself to hear your own voice Just as way, as it's just as destructive and more when we hear our own voice be beat us up when we can hear our own voice. So, whether it be out loud or in your head, sound has this way of expanding, resonating and healing down deep. So definitely start singing, first of all, and I have, I actually have.

Speaker 2:

I will sing in front of my family. Now I was, I was saying in front of like my in-laws, and my father-in-law is always the one that he's like I wish you'd do that more and I'm like I'm working on it yeah.

Speaker 2:

Also something I've seen a lot in my clients too, around feeling the pleasure of like making noise, making sound and you know this connects also back sexually, I think too because and just really using your voice also like hearing yourself say something when you're standing up for yourself or someone else, or where you're dissenting or where you're, you know, asking a question because you don't understand or because or you're telling someone you're really excited or you're doing these things that for a lot of us there's there's some pain, there's some past people experiences around us, feeling however we felt, and then saying a thing, making a noise, using our voice, and having that be vilified.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yes, yeah. And so it's part of that creating safety first right you trusting yourself that you can say the thing and not get in trouble, or if you get in trouble, you'll be able to clean it up or whatever you need to later Trusting yourself to represent yourself honestly. So sometimes it starts with saying the no when you really want to say no and saying the yes when you really want to say yes, including sexually, like no, that does not feel good, don't bite my nipple. Yes, that feels good, bite my cheek or whatever it is for you. And I think often, like I said before, when we're stuck in that pattern of the A plus the B plus the C equals the O, then if we don't get the O, then we're like we did all of this wrong when, if the pattern is now what felt good for you and did you express what you wanted, and did I express what I wanted, and did we stop when we were both pleasure full? Oh, and you know, oh, oh, yeah.

Speaker 2:

No, that made me also think of, like, there's this whole thing of receiving right Giving versus giving. Who's providing, who's who's receiving, who's giving, who's taking? And those are, by the way, providing and receiving our different energy than giving and taking yes, yes, yes, demanding and obliging.

Speaker 1:

So taking comes without consent Right, so when we're yeah we're moving, yes, right.

Speaker 2:

Obligation is also giving without consent. You are giving because you feel like if you don't, you're not going to be safe, right, like, oh well, I guess I have to do this Now. You're not feeling like imminently threatened. Right, you're not feeling coerced, but there is a tiny bit of like that sounded like a question and in reality it was a statement Right, this is something that TLC and I have been really like kind of venturing in and feeling into ourselves, like what parts feel good and what parts don't, and like the polarity masculine, feminine, dominant submission, like all of that which you want to talk trauma. Like. Every time I see anyone having conversations about this online, I'm just like where's my popcorn? Right, like, because everyone this is, it's a highly activating topic and it's very tied to pleasure, right, and you know like I'm not even going to try to go into this is a several hour thing that we actually talk about in some of our spaces around, like evolution and biology and how we are programmed genetically to like receive and provide, depending on what's what, and again, too much for today.

Speaker 2:

But as we've been venturing into this, one of the things I've been really noticing is how much I have felt the need to manipulate myself or others in order to feel good or to get what I want. That, I think, will help me feel good and it's really learning. Can I express what I desire and can I express what I need? That is actually my real desire and real need and not what I think someone else wants me to want or need. And can I do it in a way that is clean, right, like like, can I do it in a way where whatever they say back doesn't shift what I say first? Oh, yes, that's key.

Speaker 2:

And you talk about feeling safe in your body. I mean we this just happened like saying to TLC how I was feeling about something, and before I would have said it in a very manipulative way to try to get him to act in a specific way. And I could see his body kind of like contract, intense around it, and I was like, may I please have your eyes? And he was like, yeah, I'm not. This isn't me manipulating you. This is me expressing how hard it is for me to be patient, because I'm just not good at it.

Speaker 2:

This is me telling you that I am having a hard time, not that you need to shift your behavior.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

I just want to be able to express that this is hard for me. I don't need you to do anything about it.

Speaker 1:

Yes.

Speaker 2:

And it totally shifted the energy, because then it was like, okay, he's not obligated to show up in any kind of way, the way that he would have been before, right. And I think he can actually feel the trust now of like, wow, whatever I do here, if it's coming from my center, if I'm not manipulating myself and I'm really feeling safe in my own body and my own feelings and my own decisions, whatever I do here is going to be the right thing, yes, and it is going to be valued by her.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and that's important, and I think one of the things we forget as we try to re-humanize ourselves and reconnect ourselves to our divinity is some of that other stuff. We have been taught, right, we have been taught to manipulate people, whether you're a woman or man, a non-binary. We have been taught the best way to get what you want, you know, back your eyes like this. We have been taught to manipulate people in order to get what we want. Yes, then, how you know, start crying, start crying, oh yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well, we'll fall at your feet. Yeah, like, use these particular threat responses which we've talked about a lot. So like if this person does X, then I'm going to fall, if this person does Y, then I'm going to fight. And it's not coming from a place of like this is how I really feel, right. Or like I'm feeling in pleasure and safe and regulated in my body. I'm at home in my body. It's coming from. I need you to shift how you feel in your body, to feel better in mine and like that's the definition of codependency, right there.

Speaker 1:

Right, right. So when you're able to one recognize that and then to be like, hey, I don't need to manipulate the situation, let me drop into what I feel, here's what I feel, here's what I actually need and here's what I actually desire and want, and that then changes everything else. So I think that is huge, because you allow yourself the permission to feel good, to come from an authentic place of here's what I want and here's what I desire, and I think the minute. For me, sex is like a physical expression of our intimacy intelligence. So my mom used to say to us all the time if you can't talk about it, you shouldn't be doing it. Right, like then it's not a thing.

Speaker 1:

So if you're able to stay, even in the moment, hey, this doesn't feel good and it's not because you're doing anything wrong, it's because I don't actually enjoy this.

Speaker 1:

Let's do this instead. Ah, yes, that's so good, right, and I need to be able to say to you or cry, right, to be able to cry during an intimate moment is a big thing, because a lot of people associate tears with sadness or grief. And it is true. And also there is sadness and there's grief that still lives in our body, and sometimes you have a partner that is able to activate or touch the place your body is holding that sadness and grief, and then your body will release it. And if you don't have a partner who's able to be like I can hold your tears too. You're then finding yourself back into a shame spiral. But if you're able to say all of me is welcome here, whether you can hold this or not, then your body will be like I'm going to cry now, or I'm going to orgasm now, or I'm going to scream now or I'm going to win. Your body can trust you to express yourself authentically without manipulating yourself, to try and manipulate somebody else. Then things become a whole lot more pleasurable.

Speaker 2:

I, you know.

Speaker 2:

The one last thing I really want to say, because I think that a lot of the listeners will resonate with this, is you know, one of the things that actually kept, I think, both TLC and I from feeling like really safe in our bodies, in just intimacy in general, around feeling our feelings and like also like emotionally connecting, sexually connecting, like just connecting is that I did not own my yeses and noes and I did not ask my body for consent before I did things or said yes to things, because I had had so many experiences where it was explicitly shown to me that my consent didn't matter, yeah, that the story I started telling myself was my consent doesn't matter.

Speaker 2:

And so my husband, deeply wanting to make sure that everything that we are doing in our relationship, just everywhere, is something that I'm consenting to, that is a yes for me or is maybe like, I don't know, but like let's try it and then I'll let you know if it's a yes or a no right, that hurt his trust and it made him feel really unsafe, because the last thing that he wants to do is to lead me into something you know, in any realm of our relationship.

Speaker 2:

Have me say yeah, absolutely totally okay, and then at the end be like actually I hated that, actually I didn't want to do that in the first place. Actually that felt awful and I think so often and I am being, you know, heteronormative here because that's my experience. Please apply this in whichever way works for you. I think a lot of times as a woman it was Well, the way that you make him happy is by doing what he asks or wants you to do. The thing that has taken me a really long time to learn and is just now like really dropping in is, like you know, the love of my life is happiest when I am enthusiastically and intentionally consenting.

Speaker 1:

Yes, because then he can serve you the way that you desire to be served.

Speaker 2:

Yeah Right, it doesn't feel good to provide for someone who doesn't appreciate what you are giving them, and you can't appreciate somebody giving something to you if it's not what you want. I mean you can, but not fully right. I can appreciate somebody giving me a birthday present.

Speaker 2:

That isn't something I really wanted because they thought of me like, oh, thanks for thinking. Like when somebody gives me a present, when they're like, what do you want? And I'm like, oh, I really want this, and they're like, okay, great, not only am I giving you that, but I'm giving you, like, the all access, upgraded like VIP version of that. Yes, that is like that's a different level of appreciation.

Speaker 1:

Yes, because now you are both seen, you are both held, you are serving from a place of pleasure and desire, versus here. Let me feed you this. Oh, you don't like green beans? Well, I put in all this effort so you should eat them. Right, it's like Right.

Speaker 2:

Right and how many of us had that relationship with our parents or with our caregivers of like you will put in front of you and you will be grateful for it. You know you will take the job I've given you and you will take the money that I've given you and you will be grateful for it, even though you don't really like doing the work. Like Right, all of these places, and I think, a lot of times with pleasure, we have that sexual connotation to it and I think that that is I'm so glad that we talked about that and this applies everywhere.

Speaker 1:

Yes, and that's one of the things I say all the time pleasure and sex are not synonyms. And yes, please, let's have pleasurable sex. Yeah, can you be in pleasure when you're brushing your teeth? Are you brushing your teeth with the toothpaste that your mom told you but you don't really like and it still burns your mouth, right like? There are 1000 toothbrushes on the market. Find one that feels good in your mouth. Find a toothbrush that feels good in your mouth. They make them bigger, they make them square, they make them motorized, right? So can you be in pleasure when you're brushing your hair? Are you brushing your hair and you still like?

Speaker 1:

For me, a hair was a very big conversation of pleasure that was missing from my life because it was still moving from that pain point. Right, it hurt. I would be tense in. I was now doing my own hair. Can I say my hair is lovely, I love you. You know you're allowed to be curly and wavy. Well, I love your curls, love your braids, and can I brush my hair with a? This is going to feel good later. This is going to feel good now. Yeah, right there, 1000 brushes on the market. So, yes, pleasure applies to your whole life and yes, please, let's have pleasurable sex.

Speaker 2:

I want to end with this one example that actually I'm very proud of and I love. You always make me want to brag about all the ways that I'm I'm being in pleasure with myself, so I want to end with this and then I would love for you to tell everyone about how they can work with you. You know, yesterday I was having a really rough day again. It's just been really hard week and I noticed myself starting to isolate, because that's what I do when things get really hard, not pleasurable. It's like, hey, your feelings are too much for other people and you're going to have either I don't want to fake it and pretend I'm fine, or also I don't want to bring down the mood by having the feelings I'm having. So I was really proud because I messaged these women that I was going to go meet with and I was like, hey, I'm not in an awesome place and I'm coming anyway because I'm practicing, not isolating myself. And they were all like, oh my gosh, we're so excited you're coming, like we can't wait to like support you.

Speaker 2:

So on the way, I stopped the Starbucks and they were out of my favorite syrup and so I was like, okay, let me like make shift, something that I think I like. So I ordered it, I got it I'm driving, I get three sips in Nope and I was like but you need the caffeine, like you need the calories you haven't really eaten, like just just drink it. And I heard my body go no, we don't do that anymore. And so I pulled over and there was a Starbucks right by where I was going and I ordered and paid for another drink because they had the syrup, and I walked over and I got it.

Speaker 2:

It took extra energy and effort and I was like I am worth that extra energy and effort. I can be five minutes. And I was like I'm not gonna be eating because I have the drink that is going to help me feel good. Yes, and I was like I would have never done that. You're gonna spend another $6 and go five minutes and you're going to make everybody. You're gonna be, you're gonna inconvenience people, you're gonna do this, you're gonna do that. I'm like no, because that is what I need.

Speaker 1:

Yes so well bragged.

Speaker 2:

And I want to share that with the listeners because that's small and also that's big, big, that's a huge thing.

Speaker 1:

And my mom used to say to us all the time when we go to the grocery store with the list that she gave us and we come home with the substitution, and she would say, if they don't have what you want, don't let them force you into buying what they have.

Speaker 2:

The answer to that isn't.

Speaker 1:

The answer to that is no. If they don't have what you want and that is, you know wherever you are if they don't have what you want, Don't let them force you into buying what they have.

Speaker 2:

Right, you're allowed to ask yourself is this an acceptable, Is this an equal or better?

Speaker 1:

option Right and better, equal or better. Is this something even greater than I ever imagined? Yes, yeah, it's not that it's that you go.

Speaker 2:

It has to be this, this is how I we could talk all day, but there's been plenty of scenarios where I used to be like it has to be like this yes, and then when I let that go.

Speaker 1:

I was like and you allow yourself to feel good and then you get something even greater.

Speaker 2:

What was that? Okay, right, and that says detail as I'm going to get. But you know, yes, there have been plenty of those experiences where it's like, can I trust myself to try this thing and see, and also not say before him like, yeah, I'm definitely going to love this to go, I'm, I'm willing to entertain this and also, at any point throughout this, if it becomes a no, five seconds in, it's a no, yes.

Speaker 1:

Yes, because consent is fluid as pleasure is fluid.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Okay, well, you all want to work with horn and she's got this really cool thing coming up and actually and I'm bragging that we created it together and came up with, so can you tell everybody about your offer? And then also you've got deeper, more long term, intimate ways to work with you to if people are like, oh, that doesn't feel right, but like, yes, want to explore what this, this 335, looks like.

Speaker 1:

Yes, thank you. So what's coming up November 16 is a workshop for anybody 18 and over. It is called TNA tap in and activate your erotic pros, and we're going to be using EFT tapping with solo sex practice to expand your life, your pleasure and maybe even your orgasm. Orgasms are not guaranteed, but so that is November 16 at three o'clock Pacific time, and it is 69 69.

Speaker 2:

I tell this really quick. So we're like planning this out. First of all, you tapped into your pleasure around planning this offer out in our collective because we were talking through what you were going to do next. You're like, oh, I'm not going to do that and I was like, but it kind of feels like you want to Like just like, took off all the pressure around it and just like for it and just see what happens. And so we were talking through it and I was like wait, how much does it cost? You're like $77 and I was like no, it doesn't, it costs $69. Yeah, that's exactly how I went. And then you were like no, it doesn't, it costs $69 and 69 cents. And I was like chefs, kiss, just just we need multiple 69s, we need multiple opportunities.

Speaker 2:

Because, you know, the 12 year old and me was like hey, exactly, also, that's fun, right, that's right there. Like, oh, there's this little rush around. I'm going to choose this number that everyone knows what it means, but I'm not going to say what it means. Right, I'm going to play, use this play on words of TNA, but like it's tap in and activate, which are very nervous system, emotional regulation, words and words, and like that's the thing is, is your, your bringing pleasure into your business and using it as we are planning and working on your business.

Speaker 1:

Yes, yeah, yeah. So thank you for your knowledge and wisdom and container and sightseeing on all of this. So, yeah, that's November 16 TNA workshop and then you can always not always, but my one on ones are still open. There is a space that I hold that is a pleasure practice. Specifically, that is four months, and then if you want to go deep into your re pattering and your re parenting and honoring your inner child and your vulnerable child, then we can go deeper and that's available also for six months to begin with. So there are lots of spaces and you can find me all over the interwebs. I am Tori Miguel calm. I'm on Instagram as Tori Miguel, facebook LinkedIn. You can even find me on Spotify and YouTube and there it is.

Speaker 2:

I was like you're leaving off that last one that's been very fun, which is tick tock, tick tock. Didn't even let her come on for like, even post a video before. It kicked you off the first time, yeah, but you've moved them into letting you be back on there and you're creating some beautiful waves over there. So, thank you, thank you all for listening, thank you all for honestly. You know, I feel like the longer I do this to stay for I feel and really just sharing all parts of me and, yeah, it is a practice. So just thank you to all of you who listen and and allow me to feel accepted and psychological, because that's a big deal. And, tori, and thank you for always creating that space. I always feel that way with you.

Speaker 1:

So Thank you Same, I was for that way with you. It's a great pleasure to be here. Thank you for having me, thank you for again holding the space and letting me be in your space, as I am and all of the things is always a great pleasure to see you and to be with you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I'll just just just go higher. Okay, I love you. See you next week. We're bringing a really cool announcement next week, so be sure to tune in and, yeah, we'll talk to you then. Bye, y'all. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. Invitation to head to our show notes to check out the offers and connections we mentioned, or you can just head straight over to Institute for traumacom and hop in our email list so that you never miss any of the cool things that we're doing over at the Institute. Invitation to be well and to take care of yourself this week and we'll see you next time.